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Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
@Jason: I consider this a very useful feature. Thanks for developing
it.<br>
<br>
Regarding the implementation I like Holger's suggestion to just have
some kind of configuration bar on top at the group preview where you
can switch the feature on/off. We should only show it if conditions
based on other groups exist.<br>
This doesn't add additional complexity to the admin backend and
allows users to easily switch between the different modes.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Marcel<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.09.2014 um 14:54 schrieb Holger
Rothemund:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+Wz-5_+***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Hi!</span>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Good
discussions. With more and more features in Limesurvey we
should really think about the preview options. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">From
other tools I know that they have features like "switching off
randomization" (which helps a lot when checking the
translations on long lists of items) and allows to switch off
filters, etc..</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The
solution I have seen has like a bar at the top where you can
make these configurations. Maybe this is an option here as
well?</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Best
regards,</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Holger</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Thomas
White <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">good ideas.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Given the dependencies on other questions, is there a
way to let people dynamically set those values to ensure
that the on-page group behavior is appropriate? One
option is to identify all the immediate dependencies and
display those questions in addition to the group pages
so that users can use the normal GUI approach to set
those other variables and have the results cascade to
the group preview. Another (perhaps easier) option is
to have a single extra question that lets authors
manually change the value of variables - e.g. a text
entry box where one can enter "q1_b = 'Y'", press a
button, and have that call the appropriate EM routines
to process the equation, set the values, and then call
the javascript to refresh the on-page EM routines. I've
taken this last approach in the past (in a different
software), and it worked well and the authors liked it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>/Tom</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Fri, Sep 19,
2014 at 2:43 AM, Denis Chenu <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@shnoulle.net" target="_blank">***@shnoulle.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="h5">Hi Jason,<br>
<br>
I like the idea, but (there are allways some but).<br>
<br>
Actually : you have a solution to see question
with condition based on<br>
precedent group.<br>
If you have q question with condition : G1Q1=="Y"
and G2Q1=="Y" in<br>
Group2, then preview group 2 with /G1Q1/Y (or
&G1Q1=Y) in URL set the<br>
value of G1Q1 to Y. Like prefilling URL system.
There are a lack of<br>
documentation on this ....<br>
I think it's good to have this solution and not
forcing relevance to 1.<br>
<br>
You have another issue : with array_filter : we
need too to have a way<br>
to force array_filter (in 2.06 : all subq
relevance). Have to think of<br>
this too (but when we have time).<br>
<br>
Maybe the best solution can be:<br>
- Make a clean documentation on preview URL params
(assign to me)<br>
- If no extra URL parameters is set : force
relevance to 1 ONLY if there<br>
are condition in other group : a lot of time user
have conditon in same<br>
group : and showing all question seems really a
bad idea for me (same<br>
for token too : this one is great).<br>
- Add a parameters (relevance=1) to force all
question relevance to 1 (?<br>
not needed surely)<br>
<br>
Then : you don't have any new option in GUI but
you have a solution to<br>
allow condition with precedent group to be used.<br>
<br>
Denis<br>
<br>
Le 19/09/2014 03:59, Jason Cleeland a �crit :<br> <div> <div>><br>
> Hi everyone,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Long time no chat (sorry).<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I’ve written a modification to the group
preview feature in LimeSurvey<br>
> to address a problem that a few people
have complained to me about,<br>
> and I want everyone’s opinion on how to
implement it.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> The problem is this:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When you have questions within a group
that have conditions based on<br>
> questions in OTHER groups, they don’t
display when you preview the<br>
> group. They don’t display because the
conditions haven’t been met<br>
> (obviously) but they can never be met
because group preview doesn’t<br>
> allow other questions to display.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I wanted to fix this so that any
conditions based on questions OUTSIDE<br>
> the preview group were ignored. In other
words, conditions within the<br>
> group would work normally, but conditions
OUTSIDE the group would be<br>
> considered as met.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> And that’s what I’ve been able to do. I
did it by hacking the<br>
> relevance setting for any conditions
outside the preview group and<br>
> changing them to “1 == 1” (ie: always
met)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When I spoke to Carsten about it, he said
that this issue had been<br>
> raised before and that I should make it
user-selectable.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When I looked at the existing code, I
think the way it has been solved<br>
> before is to simply make every single
question in a group show up –<br>
> the same way it works for question
previews.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I can see why this would suck – sometimes
you want to test the<br>
> conditions functionality when previewing
a group, and if all the<br>
> conditions are ignored, then you can’t
test them. But my modification<br>
> means that any conditions within the
group still work.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Personally I think this means the change
would meet everyone’s needs<br>
> and doesn’t create any new problems –
only removes an existing<br>
> annoyance. And if that’s the case, then
adding any extra controls (ie:<br>
> an option that lets you turn this on and
off) just clutters up the<br>
> interface, and for something that I don’t
think anyone would ever<br>
> really need.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> What do you think? I can add something to
make selectable on a case by<br>
> case basis , but I think that may be over
the top<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Jason Cleeland<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
@Jason: I consider this a very useful feature. Thanks for developing
it.<br>
<br>
Regarding the implementation I like Holger's suggestion to just have
some kind of configuration bar on top at the group preview where you
can switch the feature on/off. We should only show it if conditions
based on other groups exist.<br>
This doesn't add additional complexity to the admin backend and
allows users to easily switch between the different modes.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Marcel<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.09.2014 um 14:54 schrieb Holger
Rothemund:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+Wz-5_+***@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Hi!</span>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Good
discussions. With more and more features in Limesurvey we
should really think about the preview options. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">From
other tools I know that they have features like "switching off
randomization" (which helps a lot when checking the
translations on long lists of items) and allows to switch off
filters, etc..</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">The
solution I have seen has like a bar at the top where you can
make these configurations. Maybe this is an option here as
well?</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Best
regards,</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Holger</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Thomas
White <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">good ideas.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Given the dependencies on other questions, is there a
way to let people dynamically set those values to ensure
that the on-page group behavior is appropriate? One
option is to identify all the immediate dependencies and
display those questions in addition to the group pages
so that users can use the normal GUI approach to set
those other variables and have the results cascade to
the group preview. Another (perhaps easier) option is
to have a single extra question that lets authors
manually change the value of variables - e.g. a text
entry box where one can enter "q1_b = 'Y'", press a
button, and have that call the appropriate EM routines
to process the equation, set the values, and then call
the javascript to refresh the on-page EM routines. I've
taken this last approach in the past (in a different
software), and it worked well and the authors liked it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>/Tom</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Fri, Sep 19,
2014 at 2:43 AM, Denis Chenu <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:***@shnoulle.net" target="_blank">***@shnoulle.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="h5">Hi Jason,<br>
<br>
I like the idea, but (there are allways some but).<br>
<br>
Actually : you have a solution to see question
with condition based on<br>
precedent group.<br>
If you have q question with condition : G1Q1=="Y"
and G2Q1=="Y" in<br>
Group2, then preview group 2 with /G1Q1/Y (or
&G1Q1=Y) in URL set the<br>
value of G1Q1 to Y. Like prefilling URL system.
There are a lack of<br>
documentation on this ....<br>
I think it's good to have this solution and not
forcing relevance to 1.<br>
<br>
You have another issue : with array_filter : we
need too to have a way<br>
to force array_filter (in 2.06 : all subq
relevance). Have to think of<br>
this too (but when we have time).<br>
<br>
Maybe the best solution can be:<br>
- Make a clean documentation on preview URL params
(assign to me)<br>
- If no extra URL parameters is set : force
relevance to 1 ONLY if there<br>
are condition in other group : a lot of time user
have conditon in same<br>
group : and showing all question seems really a
bad idea for me (same<br>
for token too : this one is great).<br>
- Add a parameters (relevance=1) to force all
question relevance to 1 (?<br>
not needed surely)<br>
<br>
Then : you don't have any new option in GUI but
you have a solution to<br>
allow condition with precedent group to be used.<br>
<br>
Denis<br>
<br>
Le 19/09/2014 03:59, Jason Cleeland a �crit :<br> <div> <div>><br>
> Hi everyone,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Long time no chat (sorry).<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I’ve written a modification to the group
preview feature in LimeSurvey<br>
> to address a problem that a few people
have complained to me about,<br>
> and I want everyone’s opinion on how to
implement it.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> The problem is this:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When you have questions within a group
that have conditions based on<br>
> questions in OTHER groups, they don’t
display when you preview the<br>
> group. They don’t display because the
conditions haven’t been met<br>
> (obviously) but they can never be met
because group preview doesn’t<br>
> allow other questions to display.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I wanted to fix this so that any
conditions based on questions OUTSIDE<br>
> the preview group were ignored. In other
words, conditions within the<br>
> group would work normally, but conditions
OUTSIDE the group would be<br>
> considered as met.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> And that’s what I’ve been able to do. I
did it by hacking the<br>
> relevance setting for any conditions
outside the preview group and<br>
> changing them to “1 == 1” (ie: always
met)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When I spoke to Carsten about it, he said
that this issue had been<br>
> raised before and that I should make it
user-selectable.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When I looked at the existing code, I
think the way it has been solved<br>
> before is to simply make every single
question in a group show up –<br>
> the same way it works for question
previews.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I can see why this would suck – sometimes
you want to test the<br>
> conditions functionality when previewing
a group, and if all the<br>
> conditions are ignored, then you can’t
test them. But my modification<br>
> means that any conditions within the
group still work.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Personally I think this means the change
would meet everyone’s needs<br>
> and doesn’t create any new problems –
only removes an existing<br>
> annoyance. And if that’s the case, then
adding any extra controls (ie:<br>
> an option that lets you turn this on and
off) just clutters up the<br>
> interface, and for something that I don’t
think anyone would ever<br>
> really need.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> What do you think? I can add something to
make selectable on a case by<br>
> case basis , but I think that may be over
the top<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Jason Cleeland<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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